tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7518007.post2115891047923903848..comments2024-02-09T14:11:55.826-08:00Comments on Whatever It Is, I’m Against It: Obama at the United Nations: There’s no video that justifies an attack on an embassyWIIIAIhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17267949487358907637noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7518007.post-49727942182360598212012-09-28T19:34:23.914-07:002012-09-28T19:34:23.914-07:00"define" and "correctness" are..."define" and "correctness" are not at issue. Nor is "mainstream" or not. What's at issue is whether people -- you, me or the Prez -- should speak up against what we (individually or collectively) view as hateful actions and hateful speech. I contend that you do that in this blog (whether you choose to acknowledge that or not) and that the President can and should do it as well.Kevinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7518007.post-77587715923045262702012-09-27T12:32:47.242-07:002012-09-27T12:32:47.242-07:00I believe I said I don't claim to define which...I believe I said I <i>don't</i> claim to define which views are "marginal" or indeed which views are "mainstream." For a start, I don't have or wish to have that sort of hegemonic authority to map out the spectrum of acceptability, nor do I think that an idea's position in a metaphorical continuum necessarily bears any resemblance to its correctness.WIIIAIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267949487358907637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7518007.post-69957849013359085912012-09-27T10:28:05.779-07:002012-09-27T10:28:05.779-07:00So if WIIIAI thinks marginalization is called for,...So if WIIIAI thinks marginalization is called for, using a blog, that's a good thing. But if the Prez thinks it's wise to marginalize, and says so in a major speech, that's a bad thing. If WIIIAI condemns using military to marginalize or back-room dealings w/YouTube, then that is what specifically should be condemned. But I would argue that we all -- including Obama -- would do well to marginalize hateful actions and hateful speech.Kevinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7518007.post-18765898971817920582012-09-27T00:46:56.317-07:002012-09-27T00:46:56.317-07:00Anon 2: I just can't keep up with the fuckers ...Anon 2: I just can't keep up with the fuckers (see what I did there?).<br /><br />Kevin: There's a difference between a lowly blogger mocking people and a man with taxing powers who gives orders to a bunch of people with guns talking about marginalizing people for their speech acts. And while YouTube ultimately rejected the government's "request" that it take down the video, I'll bet they held a meeting or two about it, and talked to their lawyers about the ramifications if they refused, which they probably wouldn't do if I asked them to take down a video.<br /><br />The other thing I don't claim to do is to define who is marginal to society and who is not. I'd refer you to Steven Poole's post on "extremism," another word used by Obama: <br />http://unspeak.net/extremism/<br />(and in Poole's book Unspeak).<br /><br />Further, he's suggesting a remarkably subjective standard for that marginalization. "Give cover"? "Provide an excuse"? That's one very slippery slope there (I blame Oliver Wendell Holmes, who first suggested -- no he didn't, he actually ruled -- that the expression of certain political opinions was akin to shouting fire in a theater).WIIIAIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17267949487358907637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7518007.post-749619259210268662012-09-26T19:26:08.399-07:002012-09-26T19:26:08.399-07:00Do you, WIIIAI, see the word "suppress" ...Do you, WIIIAI, see the word "suppress" in the following:<br />“It is time to marginalize those who -- even when not directly resorting to violence -- use hatred of America, or the West, or Israel, as the central organizing principle of politics.”<br />That statement, in fact, seems completely consistent with his earlier statement, which you quote: "the strongest weapon against hateful speech is not repression; it is more speech". In fact, isn't such marginalization of stupidity and hatred through speech exactly what you're trying to do with blog posts such as this?Kevinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7518007.post-25446396813372942982012-09-26T19:01:00.744-07:002012-09-26T19:01:00.744-07:00I think we're getting old, and our assumptions...I think we're getting old, and our assumptions betray us. I seem to recall we passed 7 billion soulrecently. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7518007.post-55275935007285791172012-09-26T12:36:14.816-07:002012-09-26T12:36:14.816-07:00"for every angry mob that gets shown on telev..."for every angry mob that gets shown on television, there are billions around the world who share similar hopes and dreams.”<br /><br />Yes, for every angry mob on TV, there are billions more who wish they could join in but don't...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7518007.post-24020046413897271312012-09-26T06:06:23.708-07:002012-09-26T06:06:23.708-07:00"...we recognized our own beliefs in the aspi..."...we recognized our own beliefs in the aspiration of men and women who took to the streets.”<br /><br />...unless they do it in America.David Chappellnoreply@blogger.com